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User talk:Toughpigs
Restore Hi Danny can you restore the article for Vibeke Dueholm ? I'm not sure if her page mentioned it but she voiced Ghost of Christmas Past and Mrs. Dilber in Muppets Juleeventyr and therefor should have a page. Henrik (talk) 09:38, 22 September 2008 (UTC) Gallery layouts Hi, Danny! I love seeing you add and reorganize tons of stuff. It's like old times! Anyway, I noticed that the galleries that I'm making look different from yours. Mine have the "GNH" in them, which makes the dark box below the picture, like this. But I noticed that the book galleries you've been working on, like this, don't have the "GNH" in them. Do you want all galleries to look the same, or do you care if the record ones look different from the book ones? -- Ken (talk) 04:01, 22 September 2008 (UTC) :I dunno -- we've always used both for different things. We don't really have a standard for it... I usually just go with whatever the gallery already has. :) -- Danny (talk) 04:03, 22 September 2008 (UTC) Users Hey Danny. If Foxandknox comes back again, will you also block his e-mail?Travis Tarlton 18:12, 20 September 2008 (UTC) :Sure. Is he e-mailing you? If he is, I can see if there's some way to stop it. -- Danny (talk) 18:20, 20 September 2008 (UTC) ::No. But, i thought it was the e-mail address used to sign up for a new account. Travis Tarlton 20:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC) :::You don't have to give an e-mail address when you create an account; it's optional. We can only track using IP addresses, and some people have IP addresses that change all the time. Blocked users with "floating IPs" can sometimes come back repeatedly, using different names. It's a pain, but as you can see, it's really easy to spot them and block them again, so it's not a huge problem. -- Danny (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2008 (UTC) ::::Okay. Travis Tarlton 20:33, 20 September 2008 (UTC) Scarborough Fair? Hey Danny. Granted I've been very inactive for a quite a while, but I was just curious why the Scarborough Fair reference in Sex and Violence image was deleted and why the sentence about its reference in the pilot was deleted also? All the other S&V images I uploaded are still intact, so I was just wonder what happened there. --Cantus Rock 08:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC) :Hi, Matt -- it's great to see you again! I'm not sure about the Scarborough Fair picture -- in the history, I see that Guillermo was the one who replaced that image and caption. (link) I remember the pic, and I thought it was cool... It may have been that he had a cool pic from the Paul Simon episode, and he didn't realize that the only mention of the S&V reference was in the caption? I dunno, sorry. -- Danny (talk) 13:44, 18 September 2008 (UTC) ::By the way, it's possible to undelete the image, so it hasn't been lost... -- Danny (talk) 13:45, 18 September 2008 (UTC) Something colorful for you It's still a work in progress, but enjoy! -- Ken (talk) 05:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC) :Oh, that is lovely! It's awesome that you could track down all those images -- that was a huge job. How cool! -- Danny (talk) 13:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC) ::Well, the pictures were already here. I just copied the Sesamstraat Discography and reworked it into a gallery. Now I'm working with library sites and record dealer sites (and talking to Paul) to learn more about them. My goal is to make all of our foreign recordings match the US stuff. It's a long hard climb, but I'm gonna get there! -- Ken (talk) 01:17, 19 September 2008 (UTC) Episode disambiguation pages Thanks for the kind words. The idea was born out of the frustration of trying to find an episode of Muppets Tonight. I didn't see why the "Episode ###" dynamic should automatically link to The Muppet Show. So I did a few and figured if anyone didn't like it, they'd speak up. No one has (with the exception of your encouragement), so I'll slowly go through them all as I find the time. Darth Prefect 16:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC) :Yeah, I think they're great! And it looks like it must take a little while to make each one, so it's awesome that you're doing it. I set up those redirects to the TMS episodes when we first started, and were building up that episode guide... but that was a long time ago, and we never bothered to change the redirects. So this is good wiki power. :) -- Danny (talk) 16:44, 17 September 2008 (UTC) cat letters Hi! I forget, why are we un-alphabetizing the sections in Category:Sesame Street Merchandise? —Scott (talk) 05:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC) :Cause it looks better. Check out Muppet Merchandise. I'm pretty sure I talked about this with Wendy a little while ago... but now I can't find it, so maybe I dreamed that. -- Danny (talk) 05:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC) ::No, you didn't. It's here. -- Ken (talk) 06:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC) ABC-DEF-GHI in Episode 0096 I read that you added the info that the earleist-known appearance of the song "ABC-DEF-GHI" was in episode 0096. Do you remember what that source was? I assume that it was the CTW Archives, but I've looked at the first season show content papers many times, and haven't found "ABC-DEF-GHI", or anything with different but relavent titles, listed in any of those papers. Not in the alphabet papers, or "live songs on 1/3 inch tape" papers, or anywhere else. --Minor muppetz 01:32, 12 September 2008 (UTC) :Hmm... I would think that that would come from one of the script highlights pages... but I'm looking at the different revisions, and it looks like I added that line in June... so I'm not sure where that came from. When I get home tonight, I'll look at the files tonight and see if I can figure it out. -- Danny (talk) 20:27, 12 September 2008 (UTC) ::Hmm... I looked, and I can't figure it out. I looked at the rest of my contributions that day, and I don't see any clues in what else I was working on. It must have come from somewhere -- but I should've given a source for it, if it wasn't clear. I'm really sorry I didn't source it properly! Since I can't figure out where that came from, do you want to delete it, and go with 0535 as the EKA? -- Danny (talk) 03:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC) :::You mentioned script highlights, but I thought that the archives didn't have script highlights for the first two seasons (except for something on the first week of shows, though that could have just been a personal item of the contributor). The note that epsidoes were compiled from CTW Archives materials is good, but it might be good if specific files were mentioned. I also noticed that the first season show content lists the last few Jazz Numbers segments but doesn't list any epsidoe numbers, yet those segments are mentioned in many first season episode pages. --Minor muppetz 16:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC) ::::Yeah, when I got home and looked at the files, I realized that I didn't have script highlights for the first season. (You'll have to forgive a little bit of fuzzy memory, since I added some of this stuff over a year ago.) The Jazz segments are in the first season content files -- check out this page as an example. ::::I tried to put as much information on Talk:University of Maryland as I thought folks would need, but I'm happy to scan some more stuff if you want. Is there anything that you're looking for? -- Danny (talk) 20:06, 13 September 2008 (UTC) :::::If I may interject; more of the "research papers" would be helpful. The Muppet ones are fairly easier to differentiate, but animated segments and films are often left out of the earlier guides. With the SS video player and several people's video collections, there are some of us that can help bulk those parts of the guides up. (I've done that with several of the season one guides, and so far I'm up to the L or M pages.) :::::P.S.: I envy you so much for those guides. Augh! -- MuppetDude 16:20, 17 September 2008 (UTC) ::::::I know, I wish it was easier for me to share this stuff -- I have eight big binders with thousands of photocopied pages from the archives, and I wish everybody on the wiki could get access to it all. Unfortunately, that means I would have to sit and scan thousands of pages... which gets old. But I can definitely put up some more. ::::::Maybe if we start with a particular season that you're interested in, I could scan some episode pages and post 'em, with the caveat that I'll probably stop when I get bored and/or distracted. :) -- Danny (talk) 16:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC) ::::Sure. Since the first season is already up, I'd reccommend the second season, then onward until you decide to move onto something else. Or you could put whatever info you're not sure of onto the episode's talk pages. I'm looking forward to working on 'em! -- MuppetDude 17:10, 17 September 2008 (UTC) The "Script Highlights" that I have actually starts at the middle of season 3. I wrote up some info on what I've got on the University of Maryland talk page -- the stuff we're talking about is called "Script Highlights". I don't think I'll be able to start working on this too much until the weekend, but I'll start scanning and posting soon... -- Danny (talk) 17:35, 17 September 2008 (UTC) :I was referring to the "Research studies" on the same talk page, which lists many of the season 2 segments. -- MuppetDude 17:48, 17 September 2008 (UTC) ::Oh, you're right! I'm sorry. Okay, I'll do that stuff. :) -- Danny (talk) 18:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC) :::There are also some conflicts with differentiating segments with similar descriptions. On the talk page for Episode 0264, it is not clear whether or not the "Ernie's Scales" bit is about Ernie and Cookie Monster, or Ernie and the Salesman. A similar problem involves the segments with Grover and a telephone booth. There are two different versions, but the archive guides should indicate the difference (one is about the use of the telephone, and one, from Episode 1091, is about empty and full) as some list the educational concepts. -- MuppetDude 19:31, 17 September 2008 (UTC) :::Regardign the Jazz segments, I said that the guides don't list epsidoes for later segmnets. Jazz #7, #9, and #10 are all listed in the first season show content, but episode numbers aren't listed, but there are many season 1 episode pages here that list them. --Minor muppetz 22:34, 17 September 2008 (UTC) ::::Gah, you're right. Episode 0111, Episode 0112 and Episode 0114 all list "Jazz #10"... but that should be "Song of Ten". On this page, Jazz #10 and Henson #10 are next to each other... so I goofed. I'm glad you spotted it! I'll fix those pages -- if you see others, would you mind fixing them? -- Danny (talk) 22:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC) :::::For the other stuff like Ernie's Scales... yeah, that's up for interpretation. Some of this stuff is really clear; some is like reading tea leaves. If there's something that's unclear, we should put what we know on the talk page of that episode, and see if we can get enough evidence to make a decision one way or the other. -- Danny (talk) 23:18, 17 September 2008 (UTC) There's been a little setback with scanning things this weekend... I just had to reinstall a new operating system, and now my old scanner won't work anymore. I need to get a new scanner. I'll be doing that soon, and when I do, I'll scan some more of this stuff. Sorry for the delay! -- Danny (talk) 01:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC) WB Logo Hey, Danny, I noticed that you took out the WB Records logo, and then Scott erased it. Was there a problem with it? -- Ken (talk) 01:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC) :I took it out cause it was pushing down the rest of the images... but now that I look, I can see that that's part of the format for the record company pages. Sorry, I should have taken more care before I took the image out. :On a page like Sony Wonder, the logo works fine -- it's a wide logo, and there's enough text there so that there isn't a lot of white space. Warner Bros. Records just happens to have a tall logo, and we don't have a lot of text there, so the white space is really obvious. But it's not a big deal or anything. I restored the image, and put it back on the page. -- Danny (talk) 17:14, 12 September 2008 (UTC) ::Oh, okay. I saw your reply, and I was going to expand the text so it would be a little longer, and then I saw that Scott had shrunk the logo a little bit, which I guess works, too. -- Ken (talk) 01:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC) A My Name Is Alice I love that we're still finding Joe Mathieu books! Oh, I heart Joe Mathieu. —Scott (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC) :I know, it's lovely. Apparently there's just a never-ending, bottomless supply of Sesame books. 790 and counting... -- Danny (talk) 05:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC) Everyone Likes Ice Cream Hi Danny: I just made an edit to the Everyone Likes Ice Cream page, but the page claims that I made the edit on June 10, 2008. There seems to be a bug of some sort... Tclark1428 18:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC) :Are you still seeing that? I see your edit in Recent changes, and in the history, it says September 9th. Let me know what you see.... -- Danny (talk) 18:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC) ::The date is correct on the History page, but on the Article page, just above "Rate this article" it says "Tclark1428 made an edit on 10 June 2008."--Tclark1428 18:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC) :::That says September 9th for me too... -- Danny (talk) 18:31, 9 September 2008 (UTC) ::::Hmmm... I still see 10 June 2008 when I use IE, but the date is correct when I use Firefox--Tclark1428 19:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC) 1986 Love Stamp Hi Danny: I have a question about the Love Stamp page. Try as I might, I haven't been able to find any information on the First Day Cover (FDC) for which Guy Gilchrist purportedly drew a picture of Rowlf, although I've found many other FDCs for this stamp with cachets by other artists. In a 2005 post, Garrett Gilchrist, Guy's son, asserted that his father had designed a Rowlf postage stamp that (presumably) predated the 2005 USPS Jim Henson and Muppets stamps, but I think that Garret must have been thinking of the above mentioned FDC (the 1986 22c Love Stamp itself was designed by Saul Mandel, as indicated on the USPS Souvenir Sheet for this issue.) Does anyone have a copy of this FDC--I'm very curious to see a picture.--Tclark1428 23:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC) :I don't know... what's on that page is all that I know about it. You should post this on the talk page of the Love Stamp page -- maybe somebody else will know? -- Danny (talk) 23:53, 8 September 2008 (UTC) ::Thanks, I went ahead and posted on the Talk:Love Stamp page.--Tclark1428 18:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC) Ton Hasebos Hi Danny Ive crossed to some records sites and found a need picture from Pino the pinguin.. Its a story character used in an old dutch puppetery show on Dutch television during the late 50's. He was created by Ton Hasebos and used as a starter for our verry own Pino. I hope ichanged the Pino part and Ton Hasebos correctly?(Pino 20:24, 7 September 2008 (UTC)) Another upcoming anniversary Just thought you'd like to know that the wiki will be 1,000 days old on Wednesday. -- Ken (talk) 00:46, 7 September 2008 (UTC) Oops; we already crossed it. I forgot that the date is taken from the bottom of the chart. (Emily Litella voice) Never mind! -- Ken (talk) 00:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC) Jogchem Jalink Just wow. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC) :Oh, how fun! That's awesome! -- Danny (talk) 00:24, 6 September 2008 (UTC) Stuntkip and Angsthaas Hi Danny, I finnaly founded some info about the two new characters.. Even a picture wich I worked on so they are now two seperate pictures. Can you please check if the language and writing is correct? All information I found on a weblog from one of the writers from Sesamstraat (Herman Roozen) http://hermanroozen.blogspot.com/search/label/Sesamstraat Thanx (Pino 20:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)) :Those are great, thank you! We can take care of the writing -- it's great to have the information! -- Danny (talk) 21:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC) Search engine What ho! Do you know if Wikia's still planning to work on the search engine or if that's been forgotten? Because as of now, placing a term in the top box goes directly to the page, which can be useful, but not when you're wanting to search for a name or phrase within. This has been a particular problem with the many redirects (most of which are unused). Users can always look further down and find Special:Search, and as long as they remember to physically click the search button (pressing "enter" just goes to the page), it works and bypasses the issue. For example, I just undid a redirect from "tiger" to Cats, which was only used in two places. I'm planning to add a page about the comic strip character Tiger (one of the King Features characters who appeared in cartoon inserts on Sesame), but I'm not sure whether to disambiguate it (not because we have an actual article by that name, but to make it easier to search for the word). I'd meant to mention it on the mailing list myself but then got busy and depressed and so on, so I'm just checking to see if you're aware of anything. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:24, 2 September 2008 (UTC) :Yeah -- this is something we've been talking about a lot, and the answer to your question is complicated. I'm gonna try to give the broad outlines... :There are two different search functions -- "Go" (meaning "take me to the page"), and "Search" (meaning "take me to a page of search results"). On Monobook, those are two separate buttons under the search box. That layout makes both functions visible... but also confusing. Those two words don't necessarily communicate the difference between the functions. It's especially confusing because when there isn't a page to "go" to, it defaults to search results anyway... So for some terms, either button will give you the same result. :Speaking for myself, I used Monobook heavily for probably a year and a half before I figured out what the difference was between those buttons. :So for Monaco, we made a choice to make things clearer for the average user. The basic thing that people want to do when they go to the search box is "go". If a new reader comes to Muppet Wiki and searches for Miss Piggy, they want to go to the Miss Piggy page -- not a list of every page that has those words. The search box on the Monaco skin defaults to "go" -- whether you press return, or click the arrow. :The people who want to use "search" are hardcore users -- you and me. A new reader has no interest in seeing all the pages that mention Gonzo; they want to see the Gonzo page. The main reason to use "search" is when you're building a page, and you want to make sure that every page that mentions that term will link to that page. It's basically like "what links here", but the other way around -- "what should link here but doesn't yet". :So "search" has the same status as "what links here" on the skin -- a link that's important for heavy contributors, but not for the average reader. That's why it's in the toolbox, where "what links here" is. The kind of user who wants to use "search" will be savvy enough to click the link in the toolbox. (Although I think we may want to change it to "Advanced search", to make that clearer.) Does that help? -- Danny (talk) 22:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC) ::Gonzo is one thing, but for casual words or things which redirect to something else just as shorthand (like tiger or when Hercules was a redirect to Greek Myths, despite there being nothing about him on the page), I'm not sure it's so useful, and I still think it would make sense to have an option beyond the default right there (the magnifying glass on the arrow kind of implies actually searching for the term). As an example, it's easy to imagine even casual readers searching for the phrase "tiger" when looking for that one Fraggle Rock episode, or because they forgot Rugby's name or something, not just hardcore users, and to them it may not be immediately obvious why they can't actually find anything but a redirect. So I don't see it as similar to "What links here" at all in those instances. Thanks for the status summary, though (and definitely changing to "Advanced search" would help, or for that matter, rename the search box to "Go" since that's primarily what it does now, as opposed to "Searchg Muppet Wiki," really, though I know it's too late in the day to change that one). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:20, 2 September 2008 (UTC) :::I think what you're talking about is a problem with a particular redirect. We need to design our redirects and disambigs to fit the way the search tool works, which for the most part we do. Right now, "Wolf" redirects to Wolves, which is a disambig that lists all of the important wolf pages. We could do the same thing for "Tiger". If "Hercules" goes to the wrong place, then we just need to change that redirect page. -- Danny (talk) 22:58, 2 September 2008 (UTC) ::::Yeah, it's just so far I've deleted over half a dozen redirects for that reason, and often more are created. But whatever works, I suppose. (And we'd previously decided not to list things like a Fraggle Rock episode title "Catch the Tail by the Tiger" on the disambig pages, unless we want to start doing that due to the search tool). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:36, 2 September 2008 (UTC) :::::Well, we seem to be finding a lot of things lately that made sense in 2006 and don't make sense now. I created that "episode harry" redirect (and other similar ones) in December '05 because I was doing a lot of work on the TMS episode pages and wanted a shortcut. If I'd known that we would have a wiki three years later with 17,000 pages and dozens of active contributors.... well, I don't know what I would've done differently, but I would've been happy about it. :::::So like with all the other '06 cleanup, when we find something that doesn't work anymore, we talk about it and change it. :) -- Danny (talk) 23:49, 2 September 2008 (UTC) ::::::The problem is the list of redirects is limited to 1000 results, and we have well over that (the list works chronologically, and can't even get past January 2006). But I guess it's a matter of deleting them or finding other work-arounds as they're found. It's working around the search engine than actually benefiting from it. Google helps with some things, like the still insurmountable three-letter word issue(which Wikipedia solved but all Wikia still has), but doesn't keep up fast enough). Well, que sera sera and all that, but both Scott and I have discussed the problems with this. It sounds like it's not really on the table right now, but if you can mention it as something worth overhauling at some point in the long term, that would be nice (so neither "hardcore" nor casual users are frustrated by the setup). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:56, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Well, how many redirects would you want to delete? Most of the ones that we have are helpful. I'm sorry, maybe I'm not understanding the problem. -- Danny (talk) 05:30, 3 September 2008 (UTC) :The core problem is really the search engine (which Scott and I have discussed,, and which has cropped up time and again in passing in various discussions), but with no plans to change that, a way to keep track of exactly how many redirects we have and why would help (as I said the List Redirects page is limited to 1000 and so stops at January 2006, and most of the problematic redirects were created more recently). Many are helpful, some are random and comprehensible only to the person who created them (Nick's done a few like that, and I don't think all were deleted), and like I said, more than a few basically consist of a key word (not a character name) which hinders rather than helps. But I guess we can just nuke as they surface. It doesn't sound like this is going to be fixes, so we may as well drop it (and I'll find ways to work around it). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC) ::Well, if you look at , you can see a list of every page, including redirects. So shows all of the "episode x" TMS redirects that I made way back when. That's still a long list to hunt through, but if you're looking for something in particular, maybe that helps? -- Danny (talk) 20:17, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Danny's talk archive *Muppet Wiki Talk Archives